Over there, Over here
We're fighting the terrorists over there so we don't have to fight them over here.
If the terrorists are all in Iraq, why do domestic calls in the US need to be monitored? Why does the government need to know what we check out of the library? Why are anti-war groups being watched?
Is the "Roach Motel" strategy working or not?
Labels: Civil Liberties, George W Bush
posted by Cheryl @ 11:58 AM
14 Comments:
The "Roach Motel" strategy I have in mind is: watch all the vermine gather around the issues of flag burning and gay marriage, then have the voters flock to the polls this fall and eradicate them all in one swoop.
Way to go Cheryl! Love the name of the blog!
Fighting them "over there" before they come to take us over "over here" reminds me of the 60's. I remember growing up thinking that the millions/billions of communists were coming from Asia to take over this country and turn us into communists. As a child "communists" were akin to the demons that ran hell for satan, at least in my mind. I was positive that they would devour little children like me. I'm sure that there are children today who believe that there are millions of terrorists wanting to come here and devour them.
And those Viet Namese finally did come...and, although I usually only have my nails done before special events (like family weddings), I tip very well. Sort of my way of saying "I'm sorry for what my country did to you, your country and your family."
My theory on the spying is two-fold: (1) Find out what the Democrats are saying, doing, and who they are. Use the info to plan political strategy. (2) Study the pop in order to sell us an agenda and products; especially the agendas, such as convincing people that oil companies are really all about clean/green energy. If you or I mention the word "terrorist" it turns on the recorder which then can be studied to see what we think are the answers, which can then be incorporated into talking points and commercials which we will naturally "tune into" because they are saying what we already have said...and then we'll trust and believe them. It all comes down to marketing strategy which has been turned into a science in our lifetimes.
Marketing strategy has gotten to where they are going for studying individuals to sell us more. Think of all of those plastic cards that we use to buy groceries and at the pharmacy. Data is being collected on each of us to determine just how much we will spend on anything. The bean counters can determine the optimum price (the highest price to be gained before the largest percentage of customers don't buy because it cost too much) on a product in a particular area. That is why the grocery store in an area with mostly retirees has a lower price on the same product than if you drive across town to an area with upwardly mobile young people; even if the retirees are in a higher income area. And I believe that that type of "price fixing" should be made illegal.
Let us know over at Breadcrusts when you post a new thread.
Geez I hate reading insipid and puny rants that have absolutely no substance to them. If you want to rant on the 'net you will occasionally be faced with debate -- having to provide some substantiation for your "opinion". Personally, I'd appreciate that you get some facts instead of basing your "opinion" on little more than repeat-performance emotions. Agenda? Spying? Your rant is little more than words murmured while sleeping.
Check out some real US history, please, so that you will understand that our US Government has sold the Americans on a sham a LONG time ago, long before the 1900s. Our government has fed us the type of education they believed was appropriate (complements of the Public School System). Our government has filled us with cover-ups for conspiratorial crimes. Our government is allowing MILLIONS to go completely uninsured while their healthcare is at risk, meanwhile, watching the cost of medical care is rising so high that only the most affluent can "afford" care. (Can you see where this run-away medical cost is heading?? THINK....Think AGENDA.)
The US Government has regulated our national agriculture and prices involve subsidies. What other business in America does that? The Government does not tell us about cancer clusters that are very obvious when you analyze epidemiological data. Ever wonder why no serious medical illness ever has a cure? (It's not good business practice to heal someone. It is better to have a subscriber who is sick.) More shams?
More than a century ago, our government determined that our Native Americans could be granted some lousy arid lands on which their "Reservations" could be placed, then it was okay to shove them all together (although in our more recent times, we are a nation that is really trying to push the "diversity" concept). SHAMS. All of them.
Our government determined that we MUST pay taxes and play by THEIR rules. Yet, this is said to be a democracy where We The People can be "free". Our Nation of people continually believe that we live in a democracy. WE DO NOT. We are a Republic. We are governed, and we are government by specific rules. Check the history!! Ask an Indian about their freedom and their rights. Then compare their treatment to how our Nation is now treating the Illegals who have made it here in our country. Is this equitable??
Few people understand that the USA is not a democracy, but is a REPUBLIC. Since we are a Republic, we are destined to the control of our elected officials. Don't like it? Run for office or move to another country. Few do either, and sadly, very few choose to do little more than voice a malcontented complaint here and there. So here we all are, a collective body of a nation of diversity (the new G-man buzz-word to say 'many races trying to get along under one-roof').
The reality of our US government is that We The People have been watched and monitored for scores of years. We need not look any further than the US Dept of Commerce and the Census Bureau for statistical gathering and data analysis. Our government system tracks race, employment, earnings, and other demographics. And it does enable us (the US Government AND We The People) to see a variety of trends and national changes.
But spying for the sake of learning what Democrats are saying and doing? Almost all of the mainstream news rags are owned by left-wing Democrats and the slant of news is more than obvious. We don't need no stinkin' spy-guys for that. Just buy one of the liberal rags.
I don't believe that you've thought about news bias or unfair media reports, but more and more people are growing saavy to this mode of "doing media business". (Remember Cindy Sheehan, once lauded by the Dems and now laughed at by most for being somewhat imbalanced?) Since the internet is filled with knowledge, try searching one of the websites that analyzes "sides" and determines political bias. It's better to read both sides, or read from neutral media, than to be stuck-in-the-rut with just one biased opinion.
I have to take issue with "spying" to be able to feed We The People an agenda. Where've you been? Data gathering has been ongoing and we don't need wire-tapping for that.
The US Goverment agenda has been in motion for a number of years. Ever hear of lobbyists? How about the newer government agencies that regulate everything from nuclear plant construction and power plants to the Securities Exchange to monopolistic businesses (ie Microsoft). How about NAFTA? Big Money runs the Big Boys In Power. Where does Big Money come from? Big Business and Overseas Countries With Big Money.
Why do you think that The US Constitution is so critical to our Nation? Without it, we, too, would become more governmentally controlled and it would set the "agenda" into a more solidified position. Our right to free speech the right to own and bear arms are the two most important rights that Americans have. THESE are the two rights that keep our good ole US Government "in check". Without them, we are not even the pawns in a World Chess match.
In case you're not familiar with the recent news regarding the latest inside terrorist threats here against the NY Harbor Tunnel, I suggest that you do some reading and learn that our government's "spy sessions" actually were instrumental in this recent terrorist overturn. And believe it or not, the Lebenese government arrested the head of this latest terrorist group. (Didya know those spy-guys scan chat-rooms and blogs and such??? YIKES!)
America is a commercialized and capitalist nation that does allow businesses to grow and flourish. Marketing strategies are instrumental to a business's success. To have a price that is higher in one area than another is nothing more than following the COST OF LIVING, which is even practiced with wages, sales tax, taxable income, etc. Do you HONESTLY think that someone in Alaska should pay the same for a dozen oranges as the person living in Florida? If our Nation were to implement "price fixing" as you desire, the orange producers/distributors would simply not deliver to areas outside of a specific corridor. Guess you don't think about stuff like that.
If you want a stagnant, regulated non-commercial world, you need to move over to China. Or maybe even North Korea. You can expect nothing, and get nothing, and have nothing to worry about. EVERYTHING will be regulated for you. Well, that is, until the next NK missle is launched and they realize that our US Government has warships with missile destroyers at-the-ready. Then they'll run for the hills. But you won't have a car. Or gas. So where do you want to live?
Wow, what a rant. How ever did you manage to read so much into one little post? Or do you just post the same lecture everywhere?
As best as I can tell you are:
For universal health care
Against public education
Against agribusiness
For health research
For Native American rights
Against illegal immigration
Against taxes
Against diversity
For David Duke's map of the country
For government monitoring of citizens
Believe the mainstream media is run by left-wingers
Don't like Cindy Sheehan
Against lobbyists
Against regulation of nuclear power plants
Against NAFTA
For free speech
For the right to own guns
For keeping the government "in check"
Believe the government found a terrorist cell planning a bomb in the Holland Tunnel
For free markets
Quite a mix of conservative and liberal opinions.
Actually, Cheryl, your post was in question form, to invite answers. I was addressing one of the responders, named Deb.
Although you have drawn an incorrect conclusion by stating that the terrorists are all in Iraq, you did pose 3 questions, too.
You made some really large assumptions but out of those 20 statements on "what I am", you only scored a 38%. Not all statements made were associated with my personal beliefs. See how bias can trick you??
Better luck next time.
Sorry Cheryl, in haste I responded to your post with a quip rather than answering your question. The justification for the invasion of Iraq is continuously evolving with the "roach motel strategy" being the latest. An article published by Gannett news service late last year, sums up my views.
http://www.spokesmanreview.com/tools/story_breakingnews_pf.asp?ID=5617
Debbie, I thought your post was very clear and not a "rant" at all.
Hi Daytripper. I am curious as to why you feel the need to denegrate me personally as well as act as if my opinion has no basis in fact. Your post appears hostile toward me.
FYI: I read, and I read a lot. I read opinions and history written by people from all sides of the political spectrum. I am very close to being positive that I not only read more than you, I read more diverse books and articles than you do.
Mainstream Media: If we had liberal media it would look like this Liberty News TV. Be sure and watch the 17 back issues when you have time. Come back and tell me specifically how any of our media has a liberal slant.
Healthcare: I agree with you that our lack of socialized medicine is something the we, the people, should no longer stand for. That each of us need to write, frequently, to our elected officials demanding socialized medicine. I am for Medicare for all.
Spying: Goes back to the Nixon administration. Here is a paragraph from Wikipedia, notice the "players":
"The Nixon Administration was comprised of an impressive array of talent both in the cabinet and in the White House staff. Among the many people who came to Washington to serve in the administration were one future President (George H. W. Bush); a Vice President (Dick Cheney); six secretaries of state (Henry Kissinger, Alexander Haig, George Shultz, James Baker, Lawrence Eagleburger, and Colin Powell); five secretaries of defense (James Schlesinger, Donald Rumsfeld, Casper Weinberger, Frank Carlucci, and Cheney); a chairman of the joint chiefs of staff (Powell), two secretaries of the treasury (William Simon and Baker); a secretary of energy (Schlesinger); and three chiefs of staff (Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Baker). Indeed a member of the Nixon Administration has held a cabinet post or been a senior advisor within the subsequent six administrations. That so many key figures of the Ford, Reagan, Bush (41), and Bush (43) Administrations first entered government service in the Nixon White House is arguably the most profound and long-lasting legacy of Richard Nixon."
I am assuming that you have knowledge of Watergate.
We are currently spying on "peace groups" and Quakers. This is an article from a quick search, but there is plenty of evidence that terrorists aren't the main target of our domestic spying. My opinion, which is based upon the FACT that the same players (who participated in Watergate), are currently involved in the same methods of political strategy.
Being involved: I write letters, volunteer for progressive Democratic candidates, am active in the local political process, and blog to educate my fellow citizens as to the reality of our current government (Hint: you won't find much real political news on TV).
"Almost all of the mainstream news rags are owned by left-wing Democrats"...please verify this by naming the "rags" and the "liberal" owners. I can think of 3 that are owned by "centrists" and none by "left-wing Democrats", unless you are referring to magazines such as "Mother Jones", etc.
I fear the GOP much more than the terrorists. I was 12 times more likely to die in a car wreck in 2001 than from the terrorist attack. I KNOW that the GOP is degrading the ability for average people in this country to live free, be healthy and prosper.
You completely misunderstand the method of using the plastic cards in order to analyze each market and store. The cards compile data on each of us that is sold to product distributers and each store uses the data in order to "fix" prices depending not upon a cost plus system, but instead a system that gets the most money possible for each product in each store. I, personally, have a problem with my purchases being analyzed in this way. I do not regularly shop at stores that require a card, if I happen to need to shop in one I fill out a new card each time with bogus info and pay cash.
Your last paragragh was hateful. Not only do I cherish our country, I work to allow average citizens to have power in our country and not the corporate GOP. I am completely for capitalism, but capitalism must be regulated or we will become a fascist nation controlled by specific corporations.
Please understand that I know that all corporations are not corrupt, but the ones that are and the ones that are currently writing our laws must be stopped.
Thanks Cheryl and Dan.
I don't believe that you've thought about news bias or unfair media reports.
I believe this was perhaps my favorite line in the "I hate the Government, only the Government can protect us from the terrorists who want to over throw our corrupt Government and take away my way of life living under a corrupt Government. Bi-Polar perhaps? Definatley Rage against the Machine.
The Queen of the Restore the Fairness Doctrine has been slammed for not considering media bias. How rich.
Robert Kennedy was on Charlie Rose last week and his final words were about Reagan rescinding the Fairness Doctrine and Wall Street stepping in to fill the void left on the airwaves. Now we have shopping "discount" cards collecting data so Wall Street knows what to fill the airwaves with and if we are not careful the internet will follow.
And all I get is spam.
Way to go Deb. I thought you would like to answer for yourself.
Nothing to appologize for Dan. I thought your quip was funny, although every time I read it, I see another point.
Christopher, very nicely summed up. I love your writing style.
Daytripper, I didn't draw an incorrect conclusion about terrorists in Iraq. I was pointing out an inconsistancy. Also, paragraphs are a series of sentences that have some relation to each other.
How trite, but expected, it becomes when individuals feel they must resort to ulterior commentaries in lieu of responding to debatable issues. Typical and predictible, though, the tactics such as diversions and name-calling are studied in the most basic of the college courses on Public Speaking and Debate.
Deb, Your comments were much better second time around!! But please do not expect me to click onto links that are biased or party-slanted as it provides nothing of merit to me. To remain as neutral as possible when seeking factual information and evidence, the non-partisan organizations are more appropriate. Hopefully, a couple of you will enlighten yourselves with this article from Pew Research Center. This one in particular, In Search of Idealogues In America, may be worth reading. I hope that Chris in HI finds this article of particular interest. Then I hope he remembers to wipe the egg off of his face.
This site The Center for Public Integrity hosts an excellent database on who-owns-the-media. Want to know who owns and is controlling the bias (bias, ownership, word choice, and even the content) in the news? You just might surprise yourself. (If you keep an open mind!)
Deb, I was stunned to read that your assessment of government spying dates back to Nixon. Please, dig deeper and get beyond a Google result that lands you at Wikipedia. (There is a world of history to be learned!) I'll give you one little 'hint'. Spying predates Nixon, and even predates Hoover (even though you failed to cite this particular spy-guy).
Deb, I do not misunderstand merchant plastic cards at all. It is just one more technique used to spy (whoops -- I mean "collect data"). Merchandise tracking is not a new concept and there are many methodologies that have been implemented to track and analyze consumers. You need not go any further than your own PC, and if you do not have a high quality anti-spy program running in your PC's background, your every Internet move is recorded. Prior to the public's access to the Internet in the late 90s, one very common means to track consumers was with marketing lists and real address/telephone selling. These lists were gathered based on a number of criteria, depending upon the type of list required.
Oh, and Deb, I am very familiar with Watergate. I live and worked in the DC metro area for many years. I have lobbied before several congressional committees and presented 1 white paper in the 90s regarding UNOS and the decisions on organ transplantation. I am a scientist by education and profession and have worked for both Halliburton (Nuclear Utilities Corp) and the Federal Government (Homeland Security). I was completely disgusted with the Federal agency I worked for and took an early "retirement". I also do believe that with 3 college degrees (2 BS and 1 MS), I've read more than just a few books, and the diversity of my reading might trump your claim. Many of my publications are professional and hold copyrights or proprietary rights. I feel that my background (including my political information gathering) goes just a tad further than reading blogs as you do. But that is fine because you have to start somewhere.(Incidently, I do some free-lance journalism and a recent assignment is involved with Internet blogs. Poof! Here I am! This blog struck me as devoid of content, originality, and without true thought. This is the first blog I have ever commented on.)
Deb, btw, I did read the first couple of paragraphs of that newsclip from the Phila Daily News. Of course, the ACLU and Greenpeace are under investigation. THINK WHY.
You end with this: " .. all corporations are not corrupt, but the ones that are and the ones that are currently writing our laws must be stopped." You may want to visit Global Integrity. The US Government is continuing to get high ratings on corruption. Not surprising, is it? Regardless, you are right on both portions of your statement. Unfortunately, money is the largest influence in our political system and principals are oftentimes compromised.
Cheryl, you blew it. You wrote, " I didn't draw an incorrect conclusion about terrorists in Iraq. I was pointing out an inconsistancy. Also, paragraphs are a series of sentences that have some relation to each other."
(Might want to do an INDENT for that last sentence, eh? It has no relationship to the other sentences in that paragraph. woopsie.)
First I would like to clarify something: And all I get in the way of strange and somewhat irritating on my blog is spam.
Day Tripper I have to wonder why someone of such depth and knowledge would choose to make his internet debut in an obscure backwater blog that has only just been setup up a few days ago and has barely had time to add content.
You obviously need to do more research for your article on blogging. You may want to try out Glenn Greenwald a much busier blogging site and check out his blog roll for other far more active venues.
Was this just a test to see how your internet persona would fly? I suggest you go swim in the deeper waters and see how well it goes over there.
There are probably many areas of agreement between you and the people connected to this blog startup. A know it all superiority lambast is not a good way to make a first impression.
If I have time I will check out your link on Idealogues. Perhaps there are some tips in there I could use. I find that too many facts can get in the way of having a colorful opinion. I just need enough to appear informed and to look like I actually care to interact with articulate people on the web.
This way it spurs the people with the true curiousity and intellect to look up the facts and express an opinion that I can then read, kinda like what journalists and the media used to be like before the Fairness Doctrine was rescinded.
The name daytripper has a very familiar ring to it from the web, like I have seen it elsewhere and your comfort and acknowledgment of the predictability of the negative reaction you received to your rant makes me wonder if this is the first place you have ever commented. Either way you had a whole load of crap stored up that needed to be unloaded.
Go try swim with da Big Boys and let us know how it goes.
Good points Christopher, you never cease to amaze me at your ability to read the underlying emotion...a gift of insight.
DT, This is a blog, not a professional journal. We're just having a conversation in writing. Criticizing spelling and punctuation is considered rude. Critiquing a lack of coherent thought is expected since a discombobulated rant is confusing to fellow bloggers...they aren't in the same catagory. I have the advantage of having blogged with the people posting here for about 9 months. I can promise you that each one is proficient at finding profound articles from a vast variety of sources. Each has shown the ability to discern cause and effect; deep intellect; and true goodness of heart. But, hey, a blog is just a written conversation...sometimes we're just posting an opinion, but like diamonds in the rough sometimes we sparkle and shine.
I have many thoughts in answer to your post. I do not have the time right now, but I will respond when I get the chance.
Hi Judy, I don't think it's John A. I do see some similarities though.
DT,
I read the links that you posted.
(1)In Search of Ideologues in America.
Informative article, btw.
I am solidly a "liberal". I am also altruistic. My sole motive behind posting on blogs, writing to politicians, and volunteering for candidates is for the country and the world to be a better place for all.
Where do you fit on the political spectrum?
(2) The Center for Public Integrity
I am familiar with this site. I am unsure of what info would "surprise" me...please clarify.
(3)Global Integrity
There is good information at this site and I have bookmarked it. I have noticed the use of "justification" in some of the articles. This one gives some very good info about the current culture of corruption in our gov't, but later states: "True, what we see here is not corruption in the classical sense, but it is an insidious form of gaming the system—disguised as business as usual—a form of "legal corruption," if you will, that is as old as the republic itself." It appears that giving billions in no bid contracts in the Bush administration is being compared to Clinton allowing donors to spend the night at the Whitehouse. Which, of course, doesn't even come close to being the same thing.
I will continue reading at Global Integrity for the information provided, but will be alert for methods of downplaying current atrocities.
I will stand by my premise that I read from a greater variety of publications, since I did look at the links that you posted and you have stated that you will not click on certain links. I will ignore that you stated that my reading is limited to blogs (don't be a child...no fun for me and degrading to you).
FYI: I have a BS, M.Ed., and a certificate from a pilot program that is equal to another BS. It included 360 hours and if I give the Univ. tuition for those hours they will give me the degree, however the state considers the certificate as an acceptable prerequisite for the position which satisfies me and my bank account. So it looks as if we have spent about the same amount of time in college.
Out of time again...more later.
Judy, I have the same hunch as you do. The communication style -- together with those "eclectic" (Libertarian?) opinions -- sounds eerily familiar. What he says about tactics such as diversions and name-calling, made me almost think otherwise, since our "old friend" unfailingly resorted to that. Although... by mentioning that, this supposed newcomer makes it clear that he is just as aware as our "friend" was, of the short-term value of resorting to lowbrow diversionary tactics such as name-calling.
Hmmm...
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